Author Topic: Property Owners Support Group  (Read 12900 times)

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Papillon

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Property Owners Support Group
« on: July 28, 2013, 13:12:13 PM »
Recent postings on this forum have highlighted the precarious state of the private property rental market in the Port.

Belladonna goes straight to the point:

Why do the media here not take the government to task? Why does it not challenge its line on rental accommodation? There is a scandal being played out. One of potentially massive economic harm and no one seems to dare to ask questions. Why?

Eleanor’s last paragraph says it all:

“The knock on of this is just crazy! None of us who love PP should have a smile on our faces as we will all be hit by this in my opinion. Plus of course how much will our property be worth if this is not challenged? I really feel this is a worry to all whether you rent with or without a licence! Do we want PP to become tired and run down? of course we don't - what the heck can we do about this?  ”

I believe there is so much we can do if we stick together as a group, encourage others to join and keep each other informed on the latest developments.

First of all I would like to make my position clear; I want to compete with the hotels on an even playing field and wish to pay the appropriate registration fee to obtain a rental permit, I also want to contribute my fair share of tax to help the Spanish economy. To some extent I could be doing this now as with 16 weeks of rental I could generate at least €500 per week to the local economy with client spending plus the additional support created by supporting the local infrastructure with use of laundry, cleaning and maintenance facilities. Multiply that by the number of apartment in Mallorca and we see the vast contribution property owners make to the island economy.

So where do we go from here. I think we need to fully understand the problem and the following links will give some background.


http://www.seemallorca.com/property/letting.html

http://www.seemallorca.com/property/letting/new-reform-on-the-tenancy-act-in-mallorca.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10038701/Spain-to-clamp-down-on-private-holiday-rentals.html


This last article seems to add some perspective to the situation.

http://www.propertywire.com/news/europe/spain-property-holiday-lets-201305167790.html


Please feel free to add further historical links that may add to the understanding of the problem.

This whole situation is taking on “Ratner” proportions when a solution is within easy reach. Issuing property owners with a 2 year temporary permit with renewal requirement to show proof of income and tax paid would be a simple way to resolve the situation.

I am sure there are many other ways to stop this fiscal suicide, there just needs to be some sensible lobbying to clarify the law and help Spain back on its feet.

If you wish to contribute or just show support for this initiative please register with your screen name only on:

pollensapropertyownersgroup@gmail.com.

If you do not wish to use your primary email account please generate a gmail address.

Papillon


« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 18:12:12 PM by Belladonna »

Belladonna

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2013, 18:11:31 PM »
I have moved this subject to this closed area as I feel that owners may prefer a little more privacy on this subject.  I hope you agree.
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Eleanor

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 18:28:29 PM »
Good idea Bella. This is a sensitive subject with varied views.
Eleanor


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Belladonna

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2013, 08:25:35 AM »
I am not surprised at the uproar this is causing. Papillons wording, be it tongue in cheek or not, re the non availablility of obtaining a licence was a fair point.   

Is there a way of determining whether an apartment block is purely residential or not? There are large areas of separate blocks like Pinaret, would some be tourist and some not for example? I assume the only purely tourist rental blocks mentioned are Duva and Habitat?

« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 11:29:48 AM by Belladonna »
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tonsyl

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2013, 09:06:14 AM »
I'm not at all surprised at the way the "other place" is behaving, that forum has form for it. As I am not an owner I will not contribute for or against in this thread but I think blocks like Bellamar, Flora and Tamarind could also be "tourist" rated as are probably many of those on the front, one in particular comes to mind as a recent addition, the 4 or 5 above the re-built hyper market up toward the Humid.

Belladonna

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2013, 09:15:16 AM »
Perhaps more are being built now specifically for this reason?
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Eleanor

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 09:27:53 AM »
Not sure of the answer to this question and some of the blocks are  the obvious as said Habitat Duva Flora. I wonder about the Taylor Woodrow blocks as I looked on their site on Saturday and it referred to rental income. I can't see to find it this morning??
I do know that a lot of the McCallum built blocks did have written in that no renting was allowed. This was clear and agreed to when people bought his blocks.

The problem I think is that many might have been 'mis sold. (Ok I will won't go on about estate agents! >:() We have had 2 friends who bought in different Macallum blocks to be told that 'everyone does it' and the wording was just 'a formality' to find that this wasn't the case. Both relied on the rental to keep the property and both ended selling at a much reduced figure. I am not suggesting McCallum mis sold. Most agents sell McCallum properties. Ok it could be argued that what is written and what you sign for is what is gold but the agents do need to take some responsibility as do (perhaps?) the lawyers in possibly not pointing out exactly what this all meant.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 15:34:37 PM by Eleanor »
Eleanor


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Eleanor

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 09:36:02 AM »
Sorry I have just read the main thread and I have duplicated what others have said - apologies!

Another tourist block is The Leo apartments. Individual little units but with a main reception area. Must say though to find someone in the reception area is a task in itself! It is a little room with a few leaflets and other info around. It does has one though!  ::)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 15:35:40 PM by Eleanor »
Eleanor


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Papillon

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 13:52:36 PM »
This is my response to rainbow.

rainbow maybe I should take a little time to explain myself.

Spanish property legislation has always been a minefield of misinformation and dubious practices. Many owners on here will be fully aware of the Capital Gains tax scam that saw bundles of notes passed across the table in front of lawyers and bank managers whilst the notary left the room. My solicitor said this was normal custom and practice of splitting white and black money 80/20 or 70/30, what he didn’t say of course is that any new property owner was taking on somebody else’s Capital Gains should the system be stopped. This of course happened on 1st Jan 2007 when the Income Tax Act and Tax Fraud Prevention Act came into force which resulted in the Capital Gains tax being reduced from 35% to 18%.

At the time I was told that I had to obtain a permit to rent if I wished to let out my property to tourists, but was also told that nobody took any notice and that there had been no prosecutions as both Spanish residents and foreign owners continued to advertise their properties through local advertising agencies.

I was also told that there are many other areas where the apparent law has been ignored, from constructing buildings over the maximum number of floors to a villa owner who wanted planning permission for his swimming pool and was told it would be denied but build it anyway because if anyone notices there will only be a small fine.

So these were the custom and practices that were endemic throughout the Port.

Is it any wonder then that this grey market of private tourist rentals flourished.

But then the recession hit us all, particularly the hotel owners and registered letting agencies. So under pressure from this influential group an amendment to the law concerning Residential Tourism came into force in June 2013. This basically bans all short term rentals without a permit (they are not issuing any) both for non resident (foreign) and resident (mainly Spanish) property owners.
Recent press articles highlight the plight of Spanish property owners who, hit by the recession, are very concerned that the odd room they rent out to supplement their income will be subject to this law.

Now this is my problem, I believe this poorly drafted discriminatory legislation contravenes the European Charter. I don’t believe that any country within The EU can introduce such anti competitive legislation that so clearly discriminates against property owners who invested in the Country and who wish to exercise their right to earn a tax paid income from their properties. Nobody is asking to be treated as a special case but just that we have a level playing field.

What we need is a properly regulated private rental market that sits along side the established commercial market. One that regulates rental permits along the lines I have already eluded to and one that encourages full disclosure of income and tax paid. This has to be the bedrock to build the recovery not just for the Port but throughout Spain.

Just think Carol the ability to object to the issue of a rental permit because of noisy neighbours would certainly focus the mind of the offenders.

So what can be done, well I have asked owners to register their interest in the “Property Owners Support Group” by sending me a PM so I can add their screen name to the Gmail account I have set up.

Why? Because sometime soon there is going to be a test case and I believe it is in the interests of all of us to give support to the defendant. If it means contributing to a fund then so be it, if it means canvassing local businesses for support then so be it, if it means involving the local press then so be it. We cannot sit back and let this legislation go unchallenged.

So rainbow, in answer to you glib response, no I don’t think there are illegal renters but just property owners trapped in this death spiral that will destroy the heart of the Spanish economy, namely the tourist industry.

Papillon







« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 13:58:42 PM by Papillon »

Belladonna

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 15:25:42 PM »
Two words; Spot On!
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Papillon

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 08:59:11 AM »
This is an interesting link that tries to explain the situation since the amendment in June.

Whilst it may be possible to rent on a " None Touristic Licence" the actual practicality seems vague as if you are advertising on a tourist website it would appear you would be shooting yourself in both feet.


http://blogs.angloinfo.com/angloinfo-world-property/2013/06/27/spain-unravelling-short-term-property-rental-laws/


It's also interesting to review the position of any local Spanish website that knowingly advertises rental properties without a touristic licence.

I believe most renters are pretty safe this year as most bookings would have been taken before the amendment and custom and practice over the previous 10 years or so turned a blind eye to the grey rental market.

I think commentators are right when they say the tax authorities are just compiling a register this year, it's what they do next year that worrying.

I shall be offering a service to trusted "friends" only next year on the understanding they pay a reasonable contribution to my running costs before they arrive.

It does appear though that, if it turns out to be true, any apartment block that does't have a lobby/ foyer/ reception area is regarded as "residential" is a further nail in the coffin.

Papillon
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 11:31:24 AM by Papillon »

Belladonna

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 09:22:59 AM »
Thanks Papillon. One thing that crops up that I am not totally sure about is the word "services".  What exactly does this include that should not be given?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 11:30:23 AM by Belladonna »
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favie

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2013, 09:40:33 AM »
Reading all sorts of information on the web at the moment, here is one that mentions services ...

http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/latest-on-the-new-holiday-rentals-law-in-spain

Belladonna

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2013, 09:47:00 AM »
Thanks favie, some other good links within the link too!
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Bonyslad

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Re: Property Owners Support Group
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2013, 09:54:55 AM »
Thanks Papillon. One thing that crops up that I am not totally sure about is the word "servicecs".  What exactly does this include that should not be given?

It means you have to don a uniform , Bella, and set up a desk at your front door and sit there 24/7 !!!!

 There probably will be a bit of a cooling off period this year but be very careful of advertising particularly on giving contact addresses etc . I think most Communities in order to protect themselves will seek indemnities from owners who try and breach the rules and advertise . It would be galling to receive a community fine if you were solely a resident and, these folk, I'm sure will be trying to get the practice stopped.

 BL
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